Roy Keane vs Mick McCarthy Pt. 2

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[00:00:28] along the way through, it reminds me of when I saw Uncut Gems. It's kind of like an Eamonn and Frankie situation, if anyone remembers. We gotta be eating pasta all the time, Mick. We gotta be eating pasta all the time. This is also during an era where he's living like Alan Partridge in a travel tavern.

[00:01:41] Shakespearean.

[00:01:42] This is Shakespeare. on Instagram, so thank you very much for that. Well, you could tell it's hot on the press because of course a recent player like Alex Menninger. Yeah, of course. You know, I've got to get an Alex Menninger pun in. I'm James Bug and over the weeks we'll be reading such classics as Steve Claridge's Beyond the Bootcamps and Ledly King's King. But today is part two of Mick McCarthy versus Roy Keane and we're reading Roy Keane's Infamous.

[00:03:02] Roy Keane, the autobiography from 2002.

[00:03:05] And joining me to read it are Jack Bernhardt.

[00:03:08] Hi. time. That should have been the real challenge. We should have done Streisand versus Keene. That should have been there. Sackmet McCarthy. That sounds miles better. Two Stropi Divas. Yeah. Two Stropi Divas. Am I right in thinking? Wasn't, um, because I spoke to you about this, Groyne, not long ago, Barbara Streisand's book, wasn't enormous. Really, really long. 900 pages. Oh, boy.

[00:04:20] Bloody hell.

[00:04:21] Half the size of Roy Keene's, but no, Roy Keene's, but much, much, much shorter.

[00:04:25] Thanks.

[00:04:25] Felt longer.

[00:04:26] Felt longer, yeah. I'm just popping about, doing my own little thing. And every now and then I'll hear Roy Keane's voice saying, Maguire's just lazy. And I just... Just... Dereivise me. Is that what kind of made you want to choose this book, Grania? What was it that made you want to go for Roy?

[00:05:40] Because we had some options, I think.

[00:05:41] Okay.

[00:05:43] No, it had to be Roy.

[00:05:44] It was only going to be Roy.

[00:05:46] It was only going to be Roy.

[00:05:47] So my background, I know nothing about football, else for about two years. So I've always found him a fascinating personality. He definitely is. He definitely is. And he's got two books. Obviously we're only doing the original one, which came out around the same time as it McCarthy's book just before I think we found out. Wasn't that right? August 2002. I just asked myself that question. Wasn't that right? James?

[00:07:01] It's Roy.

[00:07:02] We're recording this quite late at night. So hang on. What was that noise?

[00:07:06] It's Roy. 11. Yes. One or 11. Yeah. Or having a nervous breakdown because you know, his football kit is an iron. Yeah. It's no fight. Frequently both. I'd say. Yeah. He could be having a one and 11 day at the same time. It's an extremely dramatic

[00:08:20] book. Um, but first you want to hear what did you all think of it? Grania, as the guest, please kick us off. I loved it. You know what it reminded me of? We very rarely get that. Sorry. On the show, we very rarely get someone say I loved it. That's a, that's a real change for us. I loved it. I, I have never hated a football book more. Whoa. This is so polarizing. I despise this book. Wow. Every fiber of my being. I hate it. I

[00:11:00] yeah, I, I, I hate it. Wow. What was going to be happy? Yeah what's the point? Oh we've done it after 70 episodes and we've broken Jack there we go 70 books in oh wow it may be very sad and very angry

[00:15:02] F to the club and I was surprised by how average I was. Like not like now where I'm really good and it was sort of like that level of self loathing and perfectionism and nothing's ever going to be good enough. It's half that and it's half then also the world is wrong and I am the only sane person and I'm the only person who can like can fix it and it sort really upset, not upset. I actually know, I'm going to say it's upsetting. There's a bit in it where he talks about there's no such thing as glory. There's just vindication. And that made me so upset as a like, conceptually, that idea that like, there's no such thing as being, there's a bit where he says happiness is, there's no

[00:16:20] such thing as happiness. Happiness is not being afraid. That's his version of happiness.

[00:16:24] Like, I completely, in a weird way, artistically, I understand. I think it's a dangerous game to play, which is that you have to be somehow a terrible, like in order to be talented, you must be a dickhead. You must like be a, which is extremely driven, which he is in this.

[00:17:43] I also think there is something I really want to know and I kind of, even though I hate this book with a passion, I really quite want to read the next book. Yeah, just to see the joy coming to his life later. Exactly. Out of that mode where he's got to keep achieving and keep achieving and keep achieving. But I worry that he wouldn't because I don't think there's any point where he seems to

[00:19:01] just stop and be like, okay, he did all the way back in series one. I did find that very confusing. I kept, I read that by three times and even googled the name of the chip truck. So I was like, I'm missing Harry Ramsden. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, what's going on? So apparently this came off in Jason Macateers

[00:20:21] for convinced me funny. I think he was one of the players who tried it and he tried it

[00:20:25] and failed miserably. Basically they all're the camper. Exactly. I was going to say, Bruno Tonnio is going, that's the wrong Italian. That's the wrong Italian. But he, like, it's again weird because he sort of sets us up in the book. But actually, like, if you look at the timelines, like, when he talks to Mick McCarth, there's a bit at the end,

[00:21:42] or towards the end when they're talking about, like, qualifying for the World Cup, he says, like,

[00:21:45] we've got to be eating pasta all the time, Mick.

[00:21:47] We've got to be the life of the party, which I was not a Roy Keane. That was also, yeah. Even with Dennis Irwin's mates. That was a really interesting side to him in that. But I do feel that sometimes those kind of people get more annoyed to other people's flaws when they see those flaws in themselves in some ways. I think that was actually, you know, reading between the lines a little bit, which I like

[00:23:01] to do.

[00:23:02] I think there's two things going on and I don. My lack of control caused me to lose that. It just immediately it goes to this obvious burning jealousy for all the other players that he refuses to acknowledge that he sabotaged it for himself and he never says

[00:24:22] anything about it.

[00:24:24] And, and he also like spends the time going like good enough for joy and happiness. And also, it's everyone else's fault and I hate them so much for what they make me do my career when you think about it. Like, because as you say, James, he hadn't got to that stage of his career yet of the end point. I just hope that after it's all happened, he's able to both A, reflect on that he had

[00:27:02] a very good career and he did very well,

[00:27:04] and also C, that he didn't need to cause himself

[00:27:07] that amount of pain. But also, I'm not pulling it past him in time. Well, I also think it's not a great time for him to release an autobiography, except for the fact that he wants to answer these criticisms on Saipan. Like, that's basically the only reason this autobiography has happened here. Do you know, it's like this autobiography, it's like his reputation album.

[00:28:21] Yeah. Yeah. A little bit. Yeah.

[00:28:23] It's like, this is my petty face.

[00:28:25] But, like, I don't know, because at the same time,

[00:29:24] as well. I don't think we've ever gone this long. Maybe it's the standard of book we normally read, but I don't think we've ever got half an hour or so without actually mentioning

[00:29:28] any one thing from the book. I'm so sorry. What's kind of not being written?

[00:29:33] It's Shakespeare. This book is Shakespeare. I'm glad you see that too, Grony. And actually

[00:29:37] just stick on Irish football for a second. As we were saying, Roy Keane pulls no punches.

[00:29:43] He goes two feet in. it's like you come from a sort of small town or small community and you leave to pursue a career and you do well in that career in another place. And then when you come back, the amateuristness of it will get you like nothing else. It's so frustrating. And I think

[00:31:01] I remember like a few times, I hope I'm. Because it was a good team. Yeah, it was something so frustrating that you've got like Jack Charlton and Mick McCarthy, these British men lecturing him about having a bit of national pride.

[00:32:23] All he wants is to do it properly.

[00:32:25] That's all he wanted.

[00:32:26] Yeah. Have a go guys. We don't have much time. Yeah. And also as good as the island team was, they're still not, I know, Gornia, you and your sister thought you were going to win the world cup at that time. It probably would have been a struggle. Like there was that, you know, there was a, it was a, I don't, I don't doubt Sinead, but like, uh, you know, this Brazil with Ramario and stuff like that, this kind of time. And, uh, yeah, it's a really,

[00:33:43] really great team. So it's, it's, it's obviously, uh, I was like, you? Yeah. Yeah. Write my book. I hate you too. That's so interesting. Because then Mick McCarthy on his book teamed up with a carhole someone. Yeah. Devon, who hates Roy Keane. Who hates Roy Keane. So they really... Oh, that's a very important subtext, I think.

[00:35:01] Really does...

[00:35:02] It's kind of like an Eamonn and Frankie situation, if anyone remembers.

[00:35:06] I don't up a lot. Okay. Can I, sorry, I should know, do you do your context? No, go on, go on, go on. Say your thought. I think the one thing that really occurred to me in this book is that I feel like Roy, and that's a really good example of it, Roy creates a narrative in his mind, and then finds evidence to back that narrative up. And I think that is a big one,

[00:36:24] this idea that the world is full of con men, bl the fact he talks about, I changed my mind and you know, like, and his changing fact that they go on to win the next two titles. That is very true. You are absolutely right with that, Jack, and I agree. But can I read my context line now? This is why I said this. It's so complicated. This is the point. It was just when you said it, it really reminded me. I'm sorry.

[00:39:00] Fair enough.

[00:39:01] Unlike people, dogs don't talk shite.

[00:39:03] Anyway, cool.

[00:39:04] There we go.

[00:39:05]